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Report 1082
Report #1082 Skillset: Moon Skill: Waxing Org: Moondancers Status: Completed Mar 2013 Furies' Decision: Solution 3. Problem: Waxing, the active heal in the Moon skillset, provides the user (at trans) with approximately 12-25% health (averaging the same as an unmodified sip of health, give or take), for 3s EQ. The variables that affect this are a random factor and the current phase of the Moon (greatest being in waxing). The problem is that this is not actually useful to us and as such is barely used. It has niche use in bashing (for hit and runs, or when nymph ticks whilst the user is critically low on health), and while in theory it can be used to free up health for dealing with such things as deepwounds I have found that this is more fanciful than anything as everything that it does, can be undone in the time taken to regain EQ. Coupled with this, while the Moon skillset is admittedly quite nice for Knights as a tertiary, for Moondancers it is more lacking in strength, and can be described both as aged and relatively underpowered. In a comparison with Night (while I make no move to equate the two skillsets, it is I believe acceptable to use one as a benchmark for the other), it has a small amount more defense, a little more health generation, and a lot less offensive utility, and so with this report as well as others I seek to improve the strength of Moon to a point where it is at a more comparable level, making it more appealing to use as well as boosting the power of it. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Make it a toggleable defense that provides an average of 15% boost (variable with moon phase) to sipping health/mana/bromide. Cost changed to a constant WP drain. This would increase an average, unmodified sip to approx 17% from 15%. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Make it a prepared defense, so that you ready it and then it is either triggered automatically dependent on conditions or at the choice of the user (requiring but not using bal/eq). Heal amount and initial cost when prepared should be the same as the current values for healing and bal/eq time. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Make it a short term regeneration - recovering a base amount plus a variable amount defined by moon phase every 4s or so, for a minute or so. This is my least preferred solution. Player Comments: ---on 3/2 @ 15:27 writes: Solution 3. Solution 1 is painfully overpowered. 2 would be alright, but it's kind of a copy of vitality. PS Night is solid and all, but overplaying Night and downplaying Moon comes acros more partisan than a legitimate comparison. Let's just say I disagree with the "moon sucks" analysis. ---on 3/2 @ 18:14 writes: To clarify, not saying Moon sucks. Just saying it's not as good as it should be. Also, would solution 1 be acceptable with different numbers? ---on 3/2 @ 23:46 writes: I don't think solution 3 sounds very useful at all, and in my head I'm not weighing it to be preferable to what we have now. Solution 2 sounds fairly strong on paper, but if you estimate that the average healing method heals you around 10%, 15% extra to that just knocks it up to around 11% or so. It's...probably not painfully overpowered and, instead, questionable if it's worth it at all. Solution 2 sounds interesting to me. A prepared defense, perhaps requiring all full vitals or some sort of limitation to raise and you can "release" it for free under many conditions. ---on 3/3 @ 02:00 writes: I think Rivius is being a little silly saying a 15% increase to a sip is somehow not extremely powerful. You could make it work like healing heal, and usable while prone and hindered. That's an option. ---on 3/3 @ 08:33 writes: Actually, I agree with rivius. The numbers sound large, but looking at them on paper it would only add 1-2% to the amount you were healed by. For example, if someone with 5k health sips for say, 15% of their health (750 health) this would increase it to a sip of approximately 17% which I believe is 850 health (doing the maths in my head but I think that's right). furthermore, duplicating healing heal would be undesirable for Moondancers who already have the option of taking the healing skillset. ---on 3/3 @ 08:49 writes: 5k health is on the extreme low side, and nowhere near endgame. I usually hover around 7k and I'm the lowest con race in the game. I'm not sure why both of you are trying to argue that a 15% increase in healing across the board is anything but really, really powerful (and entirely unique, there isn't even an artie that does that, yet there is one that does just that for other IRE games for a whole lot of credits) but it's just so obviously beneficial to such a dramatic degree that engaging in an argument that attempts to prove otherwise make me uncomfortable. I will say that such a debate feels purposefully dishonest. 15% to personal healing is huge. I maintain my support for 3. ---on 3/3 @ 08:55 writes: I would also like to point out that healer MDs aren't using the skill anyways, so my suggested change doesn't impact them in a negative way. So the claim that it's "undesirable" is kind of silly. ---on 3/3 @ 09:01 writes: I'll note that when the racial review came up, one of the large oppositions to faeling receiving anything is that they had a sip bonus, and that, in large, negated their low con. As far as I know the sip bonus is 14%. ---on 3/3 @ 11:20 writes: If you read at least my comment, you'd know I'm far more interested in another solution over the first, so it's a bit unfair to say that I'm attempting to mislead anyone into considering solution 1. I made an error in my comment when I said 10% -- 15% is more correct for the average sip. Either way, we can perform and replicate the math, and on average you'll probably heal roughly 100 health give or take depending on your max health. 15% sip bonus is really not that game breaking. Consider too that Stag medicinebag is a healing method available to people from my guild as well, which provides an approximate *50%* bonus to healing over the potion. What you're suggesting in a Healing heal clone is actually a lot stronger (and more useful) than what I proposed for a solution. A Serenguard would possibly find it to be an amazing and powerful alternative to transmute when prone. Laysus is correct though that a healing Moondancer may find this fairly redundant, especially when one considers that currently, Healing's heal cures for some more health than waxing does. Either way, it would definitely be nice if waxing gets changed to something with some more utility, since right now it's not something we elect to use and honestly, Moon probably does need some more utility. ---on 3/3 @ 13:47 writes: For 7k, as Celina compared (I went for 5k as I went and peered at a few other moondancers) - an average sip would be what, around 1050? Then modified by solution 1, it would be 1207ish? So an extra 157 every 4s (approx) - not really that broken, and you also cannot compare skill balancing to racial abilities because they're very different things. ---on 3/3 @ 14:04 writes: Right, amended my first solution to specifically be -just sipping- that it modifies, as I agree that asking for it to affect all healing is a bit much. ---on 3/3 @ 16:46 writes: Just sipping would be fine! ---on 3/4 @ 00:27 writes: Waxing is a glorified Gedulah/Green. At its strongest, I think it heals up to 4 or 5 afflictions I was once told (this should be tested, I was told this years ago from Moondancer Narsrim) This skill can be useful/powerful, and like the name implies, it is strong or weak, depending on the phase of the moon, so you cannot balance the entirety of this single skill while it's at its weakest phase. I honestly think the ability is pretty nifty at the moment, and none of the proposed solutions seem to fix the problem of the skill which was stated. I strongly oppose solutions 1, 2 and 3. ---on 3/4 @ 00:48 writes: That's Moondance full. Waxing is currently an active heal for, very roughly, 25% health (depending on the moon phase) on a 3 second balance. ---on 3/4 @ 15:09 writes: Waxing seems to mirror Puella under Cosmic in many ways. The biggest difference is that Puella can be controlled specifically to direct at someone else, while Waxing does not share this functionality. It just has the chance to proc for other coven members when a coven is of a given size. I am willing to bet that is also heals more per use than Puella, but we might need to run some tests for that. For these reasons, I would suggest changing solution 3 to roughly what Celina recommended - allow waxing to be used while prone and hindered - as well as increase the % chance of healing other coven members as the coven size gets notably larger. Solution 1 is exceedingly powerful and solution 2 sounds rather immense for a moon warrior, effectively becoming two layers of vitality to rely on before possibly falling back on Full. I think this re-envisioned solution 3 would be more effective in keeping with the spirit of the original skill while keeping it distinct and relatively unique. ---on 3/4 @ 17:42 writes: I'm loathe to change suggestion 3 to Celina's suggestion as it would make yet another skill in Moon that is better accomplished by one of our tertiaries. Also I maintain that solution one is not overly powerful. It is nice, but not brokenly so. ---on 3/4 @ 19:43 writes: Healing's heal requires ego, and uses up significantly more ego if you are healing more health for yourself all at once. How much mana does waxing cost? Is the eq loss significantly longer on Healing's heal than on waxing? I'm not sure I'm convinced it is necessarily inferior under all situations with the proposed changes. If the coven member healing proc is notably increased (as I understand it is very low right now), this would also give it a lot more use in area damage situations, which are liable to be more common these days with the many -mantics effects. I think you are discounting the value of what is being proposed otherwise. Are you more concerned about the active nature of the skill? I feel like that might be more of a stickling point, given the direction of solutions 1 and 2. ---on 3/4 @ 22:30 writes: I'd just like to note for Laysus that up until this point in the report, the wp drain had not been included in solution 1. It came up through the course of discussing the cost of upkeep in private, and then over Envoys. ---on 3/8 @ 16:04 writes: I'd rather see the moon element removed, and have the different phases of the moon provide different benefits (short term damage protection, affliction healing) ---on 3/10 @ 18:23 writes: I'm entirely against Morbo's last point - we already have one ability (shine) with effects that vary with moon phase (one side being defensive, the other offensive), and it's not as nice as it sounds. I'd rather keep the fundamental effect of being a healing skill, and the flavour of the moon phase bit. ---on 3/12 @ 06:44 writes: Solution 3 is okay. But eh, I think you guys undervalue active heals, but whatever, not my skillset. ---on 3/16 @ 00:59 writes: Agreed with the above. I suggested an active heal because it's extremely useful. Especially one you can do prone. (I don't think healers will care they can do it better). But oh well. ---on 3/16 @ 23:41 writes: I think an active heal that worked under some hindering conditions would be better than what we have now, sure. ---on 3/17 @ 19:28 writes: That's what I suggested! ---on 3/22 @ 19:39 writes: Solution three seems fine to me. ---on 3/23 @ 11:36 writes: Going to have to agree with Shuyin here, though I like the idea of making it work whilst prone/hindered.